Gardening with The Gardiners: Episode 21 Butterfly Gardens (Transcript)

Creating a Butterfly Garden — Full Transcript of Gardening with The Gardiners: Episode 21 Butterfly Gardens

Hello and welcome to Gardening with the Gardiners, a podcast where we discuss our favorite plants, gardens, landscape design, and all things horticulture with just a touch of our crazy homestead lifestyle thrown in. I’m one of your hosts, Matthew Boone Gardner, a horticulturalist, landscape designer, and 4th generation owner-operator of Boone Gardner Landscape. And I’m Hope Gardner, Matt’s wife. A horticulturalist with our local county extension office, as well as a landscape designer with a family business. And together we make up Gardening with the Gardiners. Okay, so today is episode 21. Episode 21. That’s exciting. Yeah, it’s always exciting. I keep saying that. I know. Every time it’s so exciting. Well, because we’re, we’re keeping— we’re chugging along. We are. So I kind of feel like the little engine that could. Getting some good feedback still and all those good things. And we just recently redid our Boone Gardner website for the business, but we have a whole separate page for the podcast on there. And then I’m also kind of bringing back Boone’s Blog, which is our old blog that we used to do post on. I had to admit I haven’t posted for years, but now I’m going to use that as kind of the holding place for the podcast episodes. So hopefully I’ll be able to get like transcripts up there, which you can get transcripts now from Apple Podcasts, but we’ll be able to put transcripts up there, hopefully some pictures maybe if I have. Yeah, we’ve gotten a lot of requests for pictures because of course gardening is such a visual. Yeah, and a lot of times we’ll talk about something and don’t have the visual for you to see it. We just have to describe it. Such an exciting idea. Yeah, the new website’s really cool. So yes, so hopefully there will be pictures to go along with some of our topics. Yes, may not happen exactly on this episode, but we’ll, we’ll start real soon. We’ll try.

So round update on the farm. I guess we’re kind of in the summer dog days of summer. We’re getting really close. So we have gotten so much unusual rain that we are starting to see some kind of fungus and disease problems. Thank goodness we’ve had the rain though. I know, because I’m not complaining. No, it’s been a lot and it’s been more than we need at certain times, but we’re starting to hear some ripples about, my tomatoes aren’t doing great. Well, we’ve had a lot of cloudy, rainy days, so the tomatoes haven’t gotten as much sun as they would like. Fungus problems are kind of on the horizon, but we know going into it, so hopefully you can identify these things early enough that you can, maintain. Exactly, exactly. Yep. So I don’t think your flowers— your cut flower garden is doing really good. You’ve been working your tail off on that. Your dahlias are really starting to bloom. They’re just absolutely popping with colors. I think that there’s a new one, a new variety that blooms every day, and I get so excited. She’s been working like crazy trying to put up this netting. I think we told before to, really to hold them like a penny stake, but it also serves a dual purpose of helping with our bloody peacocks because they keep going around. As much as we love our peacocks, they keep going around and nibbling on things, if not totally breaking off. Yes, so the peacocks love to eat the flower petals. And there’s edible flowers. We put them in our salads and all kinds of fun stuff. And the peacocks do too, except I don’t want them to eat all my flowers. Well, we got that beautiful begonia. They annihilated the begonia. It was bad. Yes. So I think, I don’t think that it was Escargot, that variety, but it was one very similar to that. Very similar. And it was, I think I had gotten it for you. It was just really fun. And I know you love, love, love those specialty begonias. And I had it sitting next to the driveway in a really pretty pot. It was, nice. And one day I just come out and I look and all the leaves are gone, like just stems. And then I told you about it, and not an hour later there were 5 peacocks. I moved it to the front, to the porch closer to the house, and there’s 5 peacocks eating it. That’s on my porch. Yeah, before I thought it was just maybe happenstance because it was a plant in a pot and they usually— anything you put out in a pot they go after. But then you moved it and they followed it, and so I was like, okay, they must really like that thing. Well, I caught a glimpse of the peacocks, which I thought was kind of odd that they were close to the, the entrance, like the patty or, the deck by our kitchen door. And I had just put that begonia right there, and I didn’t really think about it at first, but I thought, well, that’s kind of weird because they’re never on like the steps. And then I’ll look out and there’s another one on the handrail, and there’s another one like on— and I was like, oh my gosh, there’s 5 of them right here by the kitchen door. Yes. Oh, a little bit frustrating. So as we always say, our love-hate relationship with them. Yes, they are a pain, but they are fun. when they’re walking across the front yard, they’re fun eating the ticks and the bugs and things and showing the pretty colors. And yeah, they’re fun to have. And then when they eat my flowers, I’m like, I am going to get rid of peacocks. So luckily, we told you all about the one hen, pea hen, who had a baby chick, and that baby’s, knock on wood, is doing really well and continues to thrive, and it’s flying well, and it’s got, it’s got some weight to it. So it’s getting some good size. It’s getting— yeah, it’s roosting up in the trees like they’re supposed to. And we debated before, as we were kind of preparing for the show, we were just talking about— and Hope’s like, you shouldn’t mention that. But I was like, we gotta mention it. So the another— because it’s pretty amazing, the fact that You had another baby. Well, I know why you don’t want to mention, because they can get picked off. They’re— yes, they’re very, very small. They’re very vulnerable at this young age. So I’ll walk around where we keep all of our little rabbits. I walk around the rabbit hut, and all of a sudden I see it. I was like, oh, Matt! And he’s like, what? I was like— no, she made it sound like something was wrong. I was like, there’s another peacock with 4 babies! Yeah, so a peahen has 4 babies. Now again, those may not all do, but we’ll see. We’ll see. Hopefully, knock on wood. Yeah, but saying that right after I saw they ate the begonia was not great timing. I know. Well, we can sell them or give them to our friends. Anybody wants a peacock? Anybody want a peacock? We’re gonna quickly get too many here if we keep this up. I, I don’t know what, the normal— the norm is, but peacocks are very expensive, so I assume they’re kind of hard to— but for to, get to roost or nest and then germinate And so, so when I— not germinate, but I have to use a plant term. to hatch. When I, way back, and this was, I don’t know how many years ago, when I bought the first 2 peacocks for you as a gift, I want to say they were like— they were $150 apiece. Probably so. Back then. So I don’t know what they are right now. I have no idea. But anyways, but it’s wild because we had— I kept mowing back in the back by the greenhouse. The hoop house, and this pea hen was nesting. And I told you, saw the eggs, because the eggs— so don’t believe anything you see on AI or on the internet, because most of it’s AI. First of all, pea baby peacocks or pea chicks are not little NBC-looking cartoonish things with big eyes and fantails. They develop— they look like— yeah, they look like little grouses or something. and then Also, their eggs are not some crazy colorful Easter eggs like, like the Easter egg. There’s no Easter eggs. Yeah, no, they’re not even that. I’m just— they’re just white, but they’re huge. how big a duck egg is, and these were even bigger than a duck egg. So I sent you a picture of them. Yes. Then she kept sitting on that clutch, that nest, and, and then I guess she was successful. So there we are. I did not ever see her sitting on the nest. I saw, because I had to keep— I couldn’t Every time I mowed around the area, I kind of gave her a wide berth and I couldn’t weed eat and all that. So that’s why it’s— that area is kind of rough. But okay, so now she’s off.

So, and you also have a bunch— well, we talked about the baby chickens, but yes, because you let a bunch of those hens go free. So we have lots of baby fowl everywhere. Knock on wood, I think the ducks are the only ones that haven’t sat. So, which we have plenty of ducks, we’re good on. Yeah, you let them do that last year. This year I think you’re like— yeah. So yeah, so, that’s pretty much what’s going on around the farm, I think. Yep. it’s just, now we finally finished the spring planting. It’s kind of that summer maintenance, enjoying the fruits of the labor with all of the flowers. As we said before, that’s very hard. We try to recommend to do that, but then we have to practice what we preach. And Hope’s like, let’s go just walk the garden, not enjoy it, or sit outside. It is very nice to just appreciate the hard work and not make, try really hard not to make a mental checklist of all the things that are wrong or what you gotta do or what you’re planning. Oh, that’s difficult sometimes. So, yep.

So we talked, we thought, thought about a great topic today. Well, it is the time that we’re enjoying the garden, and what better way to enjoy the garden is not just with our flowers but with butterflies. Butterflies. I love to have butterflies flittering around the garden and landing on flowers, and I love taking pictures of them too. And I think, any good garden is going to attract butterflies and pollinators and all those things just naturally. Yes. And, but, these things have become kind of hot topic, kind of, I want to create a butterfly garden, and there are certain plants, elements, and things you can use to really create that environment to help encourage them. But I think in creating that environment, we also a lot of times will create the environment that will attract birds, hummingbirds, other pollinators, not just a butterfly. So when we say a butterfly garden, I think we just use that term kind of because it’s a hot topic term. Well, and but really, a butterfly garden is much more than just— and butterflies, let’s face it, they’re the sexy ones of the insects. They’re pretty because they’re pretty. Yeah, they’re the supermodel. They are, they are. And so everybody wants to see those. And, but you’re right, you attract all those things when you do these. And I think what some people forget is that a butterfly garden, it’s supposed to support all stages of a butterfly’s life. That’s very key. Not just the beautiful butterfly, you also get the caterpillars. And in order to get the caterpillars to turn into butterflies, they have to be able to munch on things. Exactly. Remember that story, The Hungry Little Caterpillar? Okay, well, maybe not all the caterpillars are eating, what, ice cream cones and some of the other things that the hungry little caterpillar did, but they are eating a lot of other things. Exactly. And so everybody wants to think of just the blooms, and while those are very important, what she’s saying is, butterfly gardens should provide food, water, shelter, and habitat for the complete life cycle. So you’re getting all those stages covered. Yes. And that’s a way to really get a good butterfly, quote unquote, butterfly garden. Exactly.

So where are you going to put that butterfly garden? And that’s kind of the first thing that you have to really think of if you decide you want a butterfly garden. Where’s going to be the best place to put it? Full sun. Full sun, good drainage. With Extension, you’re always going to say get that soil tested. I think I have to say it on every podcast that we do, but Get your soil tested so that what your pH is, know what nutrient value of that soil is to make sure that it’s a good rich nutrient. You definitely want to start off by getting rid of all the weeds so that there’s not that competition with the plants that you put in that garden. Or take up the sod or create the bed. Yeah, add good organic matters. So what’s really, really important to remember though is that butterflies are an insect, so they have to warm up in the morning in order to fly, and that’s why you really want they need that sunlight. So you really want to have a full sun garden because they’re a cold-blooded insect and they need that good 6, at least 6 hours of sunlight in the garden. Plus most of the plants, not all, but most of the plants that they’re going to feed on are full sun, which kind of makes sense because that’s their habitat. So that’s the plants that, the plants that are thriving in that location are also the same way, conditions that the butterflies are going to thrive. But you also wanna make sure that you kinda give that a little, if you can, give that garden a little bit of protection from the wind. Because you don’t want them in a— yeah, those little guys and girls, the little butterflies, they do have delicate wings, and they want to be able to rest on a flower, not be blown off the flower. And move around. Yeah, to be able to flitter from one to the other. So if you have it close to like a windbreak of some type, Maybe it’s just a hedge or a fence row or just a wall that just kind of creates that nice environment for the tree to be able to rest. Or it’s like our property and we’re kind of in a little hole, like a valley. We’re in a hole. Yep, exactly. So we don’t have like gusty winds like some of our neighbors do. They’re up on the— They have great views. They have great views. There’s a trade-off, but they have massive views. My mom and dad have amazing views all out the back of, the house. But there’s always a breeze. Exactly. Some days it’s a lot stronger than others, but yes. So you always want to make sure that, you give them a lot of sunlight, give them a little bit of protection from that, real heavy wind. And then we want to make sure that you have plants that the females are going to lay their eggs on and the caterpillars are going to feed on, but also where they can rest on like a rock so that they can sun themselves. Yeah, they warm up their body temperature to actually get active doing that. And then I love this term, puddling. Puddling. And I, I’ve obviously seen this, people even just do like little muddy areas and just soak it or something like that. Or you can put like a stone or a small— you don’t really want like a full— they will take advantage of a birdbath, but you gotta be careful if it’s too deep. Ideally, this little puddling. What’s really cool is when Waterfront Botanical Gardens when they put that first garden in around the Grazer Center, there’s a big sculpture and kind of water feature. It’s dedicated because it’s in the pollinator garden, and it’s one with the statue of that girl in it, and she’s holding— I think she’s holding a butterfly or something. But it’s got a puddling, the way the design of that stone coming down, it’s a big version of that, and the butterflies just kind of all get in there, and just— it’s really cool. It really works. Well, think about after we have one of these mini rains that we’ve had this spring, there’s always butterflies that congregate at an area where it’s muddy. It’s not deep water. No. So scientists have actually proven that if they have like wet gravel, sand, even a muddy area, the male caterpillars will go to those puddles. And it’s, like it’s called puddling, but they get minerals out of that like sand and rock. And so it’s not just the water, it’s actually— it’s not just, the water, it’s the mud, it’s the minerals that they get out of that. And they actually will take it to a female during mating. Interesting. It is, it is really cool.

So we said places for sunning, like rocks, puddling, either if you have like some sort of rock feature or a little muddy area or something like that, sheltering and roosting. Yes. And they have, You can get fancy butterfly homes, boxes, I guess, on the internet now, or in your stores, or whatever. You can make them yourselves. There’s DIY plans online and all that kind of stuff. And they’ve gotten really cute, where they can be a little bit more decorative, or they can be as rustic as you want. And even just, people talk about it, it sounds funny, but even old wood piles and things like that provide protection for them to go into. Those stacked logs are just a more natural form of that little that little butterfly home. And you don’t want to stack them too tight. You want those little crevices and areas where they can wiggle in between 2 logs. And if you look at the butterfly houses, they’re kind of like slits that are long and narrow, and that butterfly just folds its, its wings straight up and just slides right in. So that’s kind of that same space that you want to create between logs, if you do a stacked area, for the butterflies. And this is a great tip. You— I don’t think you and I have ever done this, but, you— I know it happened. Well, I guess we do it inadvertently when we sometimes we give the chickens, or even we had the pigs, scraps and things. But you can mash together like overripe fruits and kind of compost type stuff, and they’ll come and feed on that a lot of times. And then another one trick that we never tried, I guess because I always end up drinking it, you can use stale beer. Well, they do— they recommend that if you get overripe fruit And of course, bananas is a very popular one. But if you get the overripe fruit and you mix it in with some stale beer, or mix it in and just let it sit and kinda ferment a little bit overnight, you can actually take that, put it on a sponge so that the sponge kind of absorbs that moisture, then it’ll get a little bit of the fruit on it. Hang it from some of those— Like a low-lying branch or something? Low-lying branches, exactly. And then they will come and feed off of it. Okay. So I would think, we haven’t done that, but I would think that you would want to change that every couple of days. It might get kind of funky. Yeah, it’s definitely gonna get funky, but they like it. They do. Now, and one thing to also remember is that not all butterflies actually use flowers. So there are things like, with the puddling, with these, the fruit, the overripe fruit, there’s other forms of feeding butterflies. Exactly. And just like you’ll notice too, when you get a lot of these plants, you’ll attract, like we talked about, those other pollinators. You’re gonna see moths, you’re gonna see various kinds of bees, wasps, you’re gonna see flies. people get freaked out, but flies can be good pollinators too. So a lot of the plants that butterflies use are, they’re bright colors. They’re that long tubular-shaped flower. So guess what else is attracted to long tubular-shaped flowers? Hummingbirds. Hummingbirds. So it’s not just just a butterfly garden. It might be a hummingbird garden. It might be, more of your pollinator garden. So there’s a lot of things that, they kind of do cross over, and you can get more than just butterflies. And when you’re grouping those plants, this is a good design technique anyways, or a good garden technique. instead of just doing one here or whatever, try to group plant groups, kind of group those plants together to give them more habitat. So maybe 3 of a cluster or 5, It’s always good to use odd numbers, but that helps kind of create a larger, menu for them to graze from. So, and another thing that we don’t really think about, because, we look at butterflies and we see, oh, they’re just so pretty, and we see them. Butterflies don’t see the same way we do. So the colors that the butterflies see are not the same as the colors of the flowers that we see, which is really unusual. But if you really think about it, so when you do groups of 3s and 5s, it’s a larger color block for them, and so it’s easier for them to identify that that’s a flower that they want to go, or that has pollen or nectar for them. So that’s why it’s important to do it in larger groups instead of just, one here, one there, is because it does create, it’s like, it’s a great big neon sign that just attracts them in going, hey, we got food over here. It’s a runway with the lights going on. Yes, exactly. Come here, come here. Yes. And you want, ideally you want flowers to bloom like all from spring all the way to fall. If you can really get things kind of cycling through and different varieties. And constant. Yeah. So it’s not, 2 weeks here and then you’re off a week or 2 weeks and then another 3 weeks. Constant source of nectar. It’s gotta be that constant because they’re gonna keep coming back. And that way they stay there and kind of live there instead of just coming by and saying hello and then going somewhere else, using you as more of an Airbnb instead of actual home. Very good point, yes, exactly. So, and another thing that sometimes we don’t think about, obviously, when we do these plants, not just flowers but plants, is that, we’ve talked about the hungry little caterpillar. You need to find plants that are going to feed those butterflies. And the larva especially. So when they do hatch, they’ve got food that’s going to keep them there, and then they’re going to have that whole life cycle. So they don’t have to go over to your neighbors to find food. They’re going to stay right there. So we got lots of plants to discuss. We do. Do we go through all these? You want to list some of these real quick here and then go to actual the nectar plants, or how do you want to do it? Well, I think if we just kind of look at some of the nectar plants. Go in detail maybe there. Well, actually, let’s start with those host plants that feed the caterpillars, and we’re gonna do that life cycle. Exactly. So some of the plants that have been identified for caterpillars, so when the egg hatches and you have these little hungry caterpillars, if you are going to look for some of those black swallowtails, which are the ones that are really, really common in our area, you’re going to look for plants like parsley, dill, and fennel. And we’ve— when we’ve grown those, we’ve seen this firsthand. It is awesome. Well, and what I try to tell people, and this goes with a lot of other different areas of gardening as well, but I have an area that I have like my herb garden with my vegetable garden, and then I have my area that I focus on my butterfly gardens. I try always to put parsley, or dill in the butterfly garden that’s close to those nectar plants for the butterflies. You don’t usually grow fennel. You’re not a big fan of it. No. Like, let’s do some fennel. One year we did it, and it grew like a weed. Bronze fennel is beautiful. It’s beautiful. I think it’s RHS Plant of the Year, actually. It probably is. But, and I think it’s beautiful in a cut flower arrangement. I’m just not a big fan of the flavor. You don’t like licorice? No, I don’t. A lot of people don’t. No, but I think the plant is pretty. It’s cool, and they love it. They do. Now don’t plant your dill and your fennel next to each other. They don’t like each other. They’re not good companion plants. But if you do have an area that you plant specifically for butterflies, please go ahead and put some of these plants in that area. Then you can also put some in your herb garden for yourself, but just share. Exactly. snapdragons and asters, they attract the painted ladies. Yes, and that’s one that we get a lot. It’s very, very common, and if you ever do one of those those kits that are like you raised butterflies, like with kids. Is that what they— they think you planted later? Really? Because I guess they’re hardy and easy. Yes, they’re very hardy. They’re very, they adapt very well to our area. Our native spice bush has the spice bush swallowtail, so it makes sense. Yes. And of course, the king of all of them that everybody always thinks of— milkweed. Milkweed. Asclepias. So obviously those attract your monarchs, and everybody wants the monarchs. Everybody wants a monarch. And I know that the monarchs have gotten a lot of publicity publicity. A lot of publicity. I know. Well, okay, so I heard this and I cannot remember the source, and I’m so sorry, but it— I really want to say that is very reliable information. This is the first year that they have not seen a decrease in the population of monarch butterflies. That’s phenomenal. Yes, it did not do like a real like massive jump, but there was, it stayed steady or a slight increase in the population. That’s great, that’s great. So all of that hard work we need to keep doing, but we are seeing a little bit of success. I guess the big deal about milkweed and monarchs is that milkweed plant supports, that one plant supports all stages, doesn’t it, of the life cycle? Well, and that’s what is amazing because, a lot of the plants, the caterpillars will eat it and then, they grow up and then they go off to other plants for their nectar and life cycle. But with a monarch, they do eat the leaves of the milkweed, and then the flowers will also support nectar. But people don’t think that there’s a lot of other animals also that milkweed will support. Well, it’s unusual too because the milkweed is poisonous to most people, or most, most people and animals. Yeah. And so they’re one of the few creatures that can actually eat those leaves. And they’re not harmed by that poison. No, they’re not. And then there’s a lot of different types of milkweed. It’s not just milkweed as one plant. Well, 100%. But then that poison I was talking about, those caterpillars— I forgot about this too— those caterpillars actually, this is cool, they’ll actually store that toxin in their body. So if a predator eats them, it’ll poison them, or it makes them not tasty, I guess. Yeah. It does. So that’s really cool too. So, okay, so remember to just keep planting milkweed. Like I said, there’s a couple different varieties that they’re all beneficial to our butterflies. So if you don’t like one variety, the butterfly milkweed, then you can do the swamp milkweed. So that’s another fun one. Okay, so we talked about the caterpillars. Now, as a vegetable gardener, I have to admit, when I see those little cabbage loopers— they are horrific. They can decimate all of my cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli. Anybody that’s grown any of these cruciferous vegetables will know this pest, because it’s a little bitty white moth that flies around, flitting and flitting. They look very innocent and very sweet, like something out of a movie, but they are devastating to a broccoli crop. Well, the caterpillar form is devastating. Oh yeah, they lay their eggs, but you see those little moths flying around and— yes. So if you don’t have a, like a floating fabric, the white cloth, yeah, the white cloth to keep the caterpillars off of your brassicas, you’re going to end up with these cabbage loopers, and then you get the white cabbage butterfly. I don’t mind the white cabbage butterfly. I just wouldn’t land and lay their eggs on my broccoli. Maybe I should sacrifice some of those and put, put some in the butterfly garden. And then, yeah, and trust me, we sacrifice quite a few of them. We sacrifice a lot of them. That fabric over top of them. So then, there’s even trees like, hackberries, sassafras, tulip poplars, white oak, and willows. Okay, so did here’s a did the white oak can support over 500 species of butterflies and moths? That’s insane. Just the white oak. I actually did not know that. And then with porcus albus, with the willows, they’re going to support our viceroys, the mourning cloak, the eastern white swallowtails, but also over 200 to 300 different insect species. It’s amazing. Yep. It is pretty important to have that diversity. And even wisteria vine. Oh yeah, wisteria vine can helps with skippers and dusky-wing species. Yep, so there’s a lot of butterfly plants that we’re talking about that aren’t just for the flowers.

So do you want to move on to the flowers for the next one? Yeah, let’s do the nectar plants for the flowers that feed them. Okay, we did talk about milkweed. Talked about milkweed, I think we did. Did we talk about zinnias? We haven’t talked about them yet, but— You always plant zinnias in your garden. I think I have 3 different beds with 3 different types of zinnias this year for cut flowers. I have to admit, I kind of had to just, I don’t know, I never really paid much attention to that plant. And then of course, well, I was always like focused on woodies, but your zinnias are awesome. They’re really a nice flower. Okay, so I know in our very, very first podcast, I started to tell this story when we were talking, and I think you asked me how I got into gardening. My first memory gardening was with my mom planting zinnias at our house. Really? Yep. Well, that’s cool. We planted zinnias on the back fence row, and I don’t even think it was like a real flower bed or anything. And she still plants them on the back patio. She still plants them every year, but yep, so mom has always planted both cosmos and zinnias just for cut flowers that she always brings in the house, and both of those are for butterfly gardens. Phenomenal. Yep, lantana is another one. Great annual. I’ve always loved lantana, and then coneflower. So I think it’s very funny because when I was in college, coneflower or echinacea was always purple coneflower. Yep. Well, through these breeding programs, now you can get whatever color you want. I got the most beautiful peach-colored echinacea this year, and I still want to say purple coneflower. But this purple, or this coneflower, but this peach color is really, really unique. I just planted it in that new bed over by the greenhouse, and so I’m very, very anxious to see how well it does. And see, this is where I kind of like— so when I design perennial gardens for people, I’ll sometimes design them as a butterfly garden, but really I’m just designing a perennial border or a full perennial garden. So all these coneflowers, black-eyed Susans, Blazing Star, Joe Pye weed, bee balm, all those kind of classic— those are great, nectar plants and great perennials. They’re just great perennials. They just come back, they’re hardy, they’re easy to take care of, and but they’re all going to attract your butterflies. And then that mountain mint is a really good one too. We’ve used that quite a bit. That’s a native. We had mountain mint out in the front of the Eastwood— or I’m sorry, of the Crestwood location. And, it took over in a good way. It was really cool though. And when it bloomed, we would have so many pollinators. It was amazing. It was wonderful. So if you ever find that— smell to it. Yeah, it does, it does. It does like a little bit of a moist location. It doesn’t have to have that, but we were right next to the fire station, and so they would always empty the tanks. And so we had a lot of— that’s probably why it was so happy. It Very much so. I’m amazed at how versatile that plant is too, because, it’s full sun normally, but we had it in a lot of shade and it did just fine. It was under trees. Yeah, those river birch and things. Yeah, and it was phenomenal. So if you don’t know mountain mint, maybe you have the right spot for it. Look it up. It’s a great little plant.

So yeah. Okay, so we’ve talked about our flowers, we talked about our caterpillars, we’ve talked about our nectar plants, but did that some varieties of butterflies will only occasionally feed on flowers. We’ve got angel wing, leaf wing, emperors, and wood nymphs that are just 4 different varieties. But they actually maybe occasionally will step on flowers, but they like that rotting fruit. They love— they prefer that, the sap flow. So if you have, tree starts on trees, they love that sugary stuff. And then the file dung. Yep, they do. They like their poop. But you can also, you can go in— I just want to say poop on our podcast. Stop. but yeah, you’ll go in the field and you’ll see butterflies. Oh yeah, it’s crazy. Like when the horses or the donkeys— yep, the cows. Absolutely. Yeah. So, but not all of them like flowers. It’s all part of the cycle. It does. It takes all kinds. It takes all kinds. So, do you want to talk about the difference between moths and butterflies since we kind of danced around that a little bit? Okay, so butterflies fly during the day and moths typically fly at night. Now there’s some moths that fly during the day. Are those— I guess, I guess what we call a cabbage moth, the cabbage looper, is really a butterfly then. So it’s not really— okay, there you go. Yep. And the way that you tell the difference, and this is really cute, if you get close enough, okay, butterflies they have their antennas, and then they have little, I’m gonna say nubs. But there’s little nubs, or larger sections, I guess, at the end of the butterfly’s antennas. Okay? Moths, and they go, usually butterfly antennas go more upright. Kinda like a kid would draw. Well, kinda like, kids’ toys or kids’ drama, they draw it like with the little thing on the end. Yes. And they go upright. A moth will typically go more to the side. And they can be just straight, skinny little antennas, or they can actually be feathery. Feathery. They get really cool and really pretty, but they go more, to the sides instead of more upright. Moths are really— and especially a lot of people that live in the city and stuff, they don’t realize, they don’t get to see the diversity of moths. And even out here, they’re like ninjas. a lot of times you don’t see them. They’re very— and then, but all of a sudden you’ll be like, wake up and you’ll have the amazing moth sitting somewhere. And it’s like, it’s just like crazy. Some of them can be huge. Huge. Massive. I love those. Those are really fun.

So when I was doing research on the butterflies, and I know that we’ve kind of talked about how there’s a spicebush— Swallowtail. Swallowtail that is attracted to the spicebush, and there’s a hackberry butterfly that’s attracted to the hackberry. And so I have to say that way back when, when they were naming all of our butterflies, I don’t think that they were too original. But what I thought was so funny is that there is a butterfly called comma. And there’s a butterfly called Question Mark. Yeah. What, what is that? Because they— the shape of the markings look like a comma, I guess. So it really is like— yeah, but you wouldn’t really know. Polygonia comma. Even the Latin, even the Latin’s not very creative. No. So I thought that was really funny. Yep. so there’s one called Buckeye too. Yes. Junonia cormea. I’m pretty good at my plant Latin, but Gotta learn my Lepidoptera butterfly Latin. Well, it is a little bit different, yeah. And then, as we were kind of talking, Lepidopteris is, kind of Latin for butterflies, but then when you look at some of the Latin names of them, they run the gamut. They run the gamut, yeah. Oh, and then also another thing that was really cool that I saw. So when you look at the caterpillars, most of the swallowtail caterpillars are pretty obvious. They’re the green that have the black stripe and then some of the yellow dots on them, those little white, and that’s that’s that black swallowtail that we see a lot on our parsley and our dill and things. But there’s also that, I mentioned that spicebush swallowtail. They are really cool because their head— Papilio troilus. Yes, that’s a spicebush swallowtail. Oh, that’s— I love those. Those are so cool. So on the top of them, the— and I’m osmetrium, I think, is the top, like the— You did a good job there. Osmetrium, yes. I’m so bad with Latin. But the top of that caterpillar has a spot that looks like a giant eye. And they do that as a defense mechanism so that predators will think it’s a snake. Yeah, and it really does look like a little snake. It’s kind of wild. Yes. A lot of these caterpillars have defense mechanisms like that, whether it’s a poison, we talked about that earlier, or these kind of like cartoonish looking eyes and things that really— because a bird will see that and say, I’m gonna stay away from that. or even the ones that have, various things that stick up, spikes and things. So that’s— yeah, that was the next place I was gonna go with that. So, there is a group of butterflies, they’re called fritillary. Fritillaria, kind of like that. Yep. Their caterpillars are typically, they kind of run the gamut in colors, but there’s a lot of them that are gonna have these red stripes but then black spikes on them. And they’re usually like 6 rows of spikes that go up and down their whole body, and that is kind of a defense mechanism. I was always told that you don’t mess with those because some of them can be poisonous. I never found that to be true in the research. Or sting you. Or sting you, yep. But those are all defense mechanisms that these caterpillars have to make sure that they don’t all get eaten and they can turn into butterflies.

So most of these fritillaria, there’s like meadow fritillary, greater fritillary, great spangled, even the Gulf fritillary, those are all butterflies. But they’re very similar in color in that orange or gold kind of brown tan. With the spotting on the leaves, or the petals. With the spotting on the wings. And these guys are usually kind of the smaller ones you’ll see flying around. Yes. And they’re very common, but they’re, they’re pretty. They are.

So let’s talk about some of the other butterflies that we have in our area. Now it’s hard to go through and name all of them because there are tons of them. It’s massive. Yeah, list. So some of the ones that we see more regularly in our area, we’ve got one called mourning cloak. I think I just mentioned that. Nymphalis antiopa. It’s going to feed on the willows, the birch, cottonwood, elms, and hackberries. There’s a hackberry again. Yep. And it has kind of a— it’s a good-sized butterfly, right? I think. Yeah, it is. And it has kind of a brownish burgundy center part of the wings, brown body. It’s outlined in black with some little blue spots, blue dots, and then yellow tips on that. And then yellow tips. Yep, it’s real pretty. Okay, Painted Lady. Painted Lady. We talked about those are the ones that are always— well, not always, but are usually in those kits when you buy to take, the for the kids to watch the caterpillars turn into the chrysalises and then into the butterflies. I think it’s funny, painted lady’s Vanessa cardui. The Latin name is Vanessa. She’s a painted lady. Apparently they feed on more than 100 plants, thistles, mallows, and legumes. So I guess it’s very big, very versatile, and that’s what you were talking about, being kind of more of a hardy. They’re pretty little guys though, kind of the orange and spotted black and brown and white dots. They are. So one that is very common in our area is the orange sulfur, Coleus urethraeum. Yes, it’s that yellow little, a smaller butterfly compared to some of like the monarchs, but it’s that real soft yellow. The wings have kind of a black edge to them, and then a little bit of that yellow spots on that black edge, and then the top has a black spot on both the left and the right side, and then the bottom has kind of an orangey yellow. Yeah, it’s kind of cool. They’re very symmetrical. They look exactly alike, but their spots are— yeah, it stands out really well with those spots. You can tell right away. And they like— no, no, you didn’t just talk about them. They like alfalfa, white clover, the crown vetch, and other legumes. Yes. So, and then here’s another Vanessa for you, the Red Admiral. Vanessa Atlanta. Atalanta. Yes. So, this Red Admiral is going to be a black butterfly. It’s got a couple little white dots on the top of the petal, and then it has a bright orange, almost a line that curves around both sides of the top, and then it meets that bottom wing and goes all the way down around the edge of the bottom as well. So it’s almost kind of a half circle-ish on both sides, but it’s very distinct being that dark and then that bright orange and then a couple white spots. It is very distinct. It feeds on— and these are all native, like, things that are just gonna be more native, like nettles, false nettles, wood nettles, and then hops even. So if anybody, anybody growing hops for their ornamental hops or just even for your beer, like growing your own hops for beer production, there you There you go. Yep. One that I love seeing, and occasionally we’ll get to see this, and it’s called the red-spotted purple. Laminatus arthemis. When it’s open, it’s kind of a really dark color. Dark, yeah, it’s almost black. It almost goes down to kind of an iridescent blue, sky blue. Really pretty. You don’t notice when the the petals, or when the petals— I know we keep saying that, we’re so used to talking about plants. When the wings are open flat, you don’t really notice it, but on the very edges it will have red spots. Yes. When those wings are up tight, that’s when you really see, which I’m not sure if that’s the underside or the top side, I guess it would actually be the underside of those wings have those red spots, and that’s where it gets its name. Its red spot, and it’s kind of that, dark bluish-purple color. So, and it likes wild cherry, so our native black cherry, poplars, and black oaks. Yep. Yeah, so they feed on more of the trees, which is nice. And then of course, if we do go into the talking about the swallowtails a little bit more, because they’re the common ones. Yeah, everybody loves swallowtails. Yeah, how can you not? They’re so dainty like a butterfly. They’re beautiful. They’re beautiful. That black swallowtail, we have a lot of those in our area. Papilio polyxenes. There you go. It’s found a lot in open fields. It’s one of the few pest butterflies, and I say that lovingly, because it does feed on the parsley, the carrots. All your garden stuff that you’re trying to— A lot of your garden stuff, yeah. So you have to— what’s that old adage about the garden? Like, there’s the percentages of giving some to this and some of that, and like, you just got— if you want to be a nice healthy ecosystem, you just got to offer up some of that to the tides, to the butterflies. Yes, so all your parsley, your dill, your fennel, even your carrot tops. So if you actually don’t pull your carrots and you let them go like quite to flower, yeah, they will. And they’re a very, very popular common caterpillar that you see because they are a larger caterpillar, and they’re very distinct with their stripes and their coloring. So it’s, it’s real pretty. Yeah. And then the butterfly themselves, they’re gonna feed a lot on those zinnias, coneflowers, and verbenas. So, and then we have our eastern swallowtail, Papilio glaucus, which glaucus again means blue. And you at first, when you first look at it, it’s yellow, a really kind of light yellow, and then has these nice black, almost zebra stripes coming down the wings, and then a dark border for that. But then that glauca comes from the swallowtail. The tail itself has kind of a— has a nice blue tinge to it. It’s really striking. And those caterpillars, like we mentioned earlier about that spicebush swallowtail, they have that snake-like appearance. Oh yes. So yeah, that’s kind of fun. They, they can rear up and extend 2 red horns from their heads to frighten off potential predators. They will. It’s crazy. They’re really neat looking. Those little defensive mechanisms that they have. So, that’s the Eastern tiger swallowtail, is probably the most recognizable of all swallowtails, right? one of them. They are, yes. You’re exactly right. I love seeing all the swallowtails. It’s common, but it’s beautiful. It is. Beautiful. Yes. You can see them by the hundreds in Eastern Kentucky forests and all around, all around, really, not just Eastern, but everywhere, really. But yeah, so their host plants are going to be like the tulip poplars, the ash, the birch, some of the wild cherries. So more of our common native trees. And then the nectar plants are phlox, which I don’t know that we’ve mentioned garden phlox, but the phlox they love. Absolutely. Zinnias, bee balms, bee balm, Monarda, absolutely. Coneflowers. So yep, lots of those. And then we touched on— well, you already talked about the spicebush swallowtail, so we didn’t talk about it anymore, I guess. But the Papilia troilus, that’s the one that has that kind of funny— the caterpillar looks like a like a snake, like you talked about, the cartoonish eyeballs. We— I guess there’s nothing else to say about that. Nope, we talked about those. We didn’t talk about the zebra swallowtail. Ah, yes, Eurytides marcellus. I’m so glad you can do the common or the scientific names. I try. These are the swallowtails that definitely look like zebras. They’ve got that, not really a white white, almost like cream. Yeah, with a dark with the dark, dark stripes. It looks like a zebra. They feed on pawpaw leaves. Yeah, it’s, it’s more of a woodland area, so this, this one actually kind of bucks the trend of what we’re talking about, usually full sun. Obviously there’s ones that do like woodland areas, and this is one of them. And so, I just got 3 pawpaw trees, so we’ll see if I can attract some zebra swallowtails. Do they like the flower of the pawpaw, or do they like the fruit once it falls and rots? Probably both. Probably both. That’s what I think, that they like the leaves and then the rotten fruit. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We talked about question marks. Oh yeah, and we talked about fritillaries. Cute little thing. Yep, yep, yep. So we talked about those. So let me ask you something. How do you think butterflies survive in the winter? I’d say they overwinter as eggs. -huh. And caterpillars. Yep. And baby guys like pupa, I guess. Exactly. So, we always think of, we think of our butterflies in the summer months when the sun is shining, but do we ever really consider how they overwinter? What happens to them when it gets cold? Yes. So they hide in tree cavities, in leaf litter. We talked about piles of branches or logs and things, someplace where they can shelter from the cold temperatures and the predators. Exactly. Yes, so our butterflies don’t overwinter as butterflies themselves. It’s just the eggs, the caterpillars, and those pupas. And that’s why if you’re really trying to create a butterfly garden habitat, you want kind of a more of an— you want the more natural, naturalistic type thing. You don’t want to be— this is one situation where you don’t want to be too sterile because you could actually remove those good beneficial eggs and pupae and everything else. Yeah, so maybe in the back corner, it wouldn’t be such a bad idea to have a pile of sticks. Yep. even compost piles. obviously I’m not gonna get in that, like a hot compost pile, but like piles of, like you’re saying, sticks or other leaves and things like that. Yes. So I have to say, last year, I think I went up to the Cincinnati Zoo with our Master Gardener here in Cincinnati. The zoo is awesome. They should be called the Cincinnati Botanical Garden and Zoo. It really should, yeah. I think it is actually. No, he tried. He couldn’t get it switched? Nope, they couldn’t switch it. ‘Cause I have more animals, but I will say that botanically, I was so impressed with the Cincinnati Zoo. Steve Foltz has done an incredible job up there. He really does. I found this publication that they did put together on butterflies and moths, but butterflies that are there at the Cincinnati Zoo, and then the butterfly, the caterpillar, and then the host plant for plants that they have there at the zoo, and I thought it was a really, really good publication. But if you’re willing to take a little bit of a road trip, from Louisville area, it’s what, an hour maybe, a little bit more, but the Cincinnati Zoo has a wonderful representation of butterflies and moth plants that they have in their landscape, and it’s just a really, really good— and not that, some of our other, like UDL and Creasy, they all do as well. Oh, they do great programs too. They do as well, but I will say that I found that the Cincinnati Zoo was very extensive and did a great job.

So, well, yes, I guess, there’s tons, tons, tons more we could talk about, as always. Oh, of course. But you want to talk, you want to stop it for now? I do want to say, you want to talk about the Monarch Waystation and all that stuff? Well, we can talk about Monarch Waystations. our Oldham County Conservation District does a great pollinator habitat cost-share program. Yes, they do. And one of our clients just told took advantage of that. That’s fantastic. Yeah, she’s— I know a lot of our Master Gardeners are very interested in it, but one thing I will say, you have to— okay, so all their information is online, but you have to get approved for the cost-share program before you go out and buy all your plants. So if you have a chance, check out the Oldham County, if you live in Oldham County, that is. Well, and this is— but this is a good point, even if you’re— hopefully we have listeners which I know we do, in other areas. A lot of other jurisdictions have these conservation districts or other programs like this where you can get money back for doing this kind of thing because it’s obviously a good thing to promote this kind of pollinators and butterflies in your landscape. So our— we call it conservation district. It’s the Oldham County Soil and Water Conservation District. They do cost share on drainage remediation. They do compost bins. They do butterfly gardens. So, there’s a lot of different cost-share programs that are out there. And you don’t have, we still like to think of ourselves as a rural county, but we’re quickly not becoming one. But even like Jefferson County, which is Louisville metro, they have lots of these programs too. Yes. Through their pollution control district and everything else. So there’s lots of great programs out there for these kind of things. Yeah, so don’t be afraid to kind of look into it in your area because they are encouraging a lot of people to do a lot of great things. So just make sure that the kind of the details of it. And I know ours, you do have to get approved before you do your cost share purchasing. Okay. more about this than I do. Touch on the, real quickly, don’t go crazy because I know it could take a while, but touch on the Monarch Waystation, about that thing.

https://www.monarchwatch.org/waystations/

So I will say we’ve seen a lot of interest in this. And I think that’s why we have not— we’ve seen a little bit of an increase in our monarchs. They’ve done a really good thing because people are doing this at home and actually helping, right? Yes, that’s awesome. And it’s not hard to do. once you can get again online, but they have all the guidelines for the way stations. They have— so just Google Monarch Way Station. There’s a great website for it. Yes. Yeah, Monarch Watch is the, I think is the the group that kind of organizes this. But there’s tons and tons of things that you can do. Explain what that means, though. Waystation, what does that mean? It is, you have a certain number of plants, and these are all going to be plants that are attracting monarchs, a lot of them milkweeds. So you’re basically registering your habitat as a place that’s going to bring them in. Yes. Gotcha. That’s the waystation. That waystation is, this is where they’re going to stop, and they’re going to have a lot of food, they’re going to have a place to rest. This is going to be kind of that migratory, stop for them, that way station. And so, like I said, they do have the guidelines, they do have the registration program, it’s all online. Now, I think a lot of people have probably seen, but they do have those metal signs that you, once you get registered, you can put out in front of the property to let everybody else know that you are kind of a monarch way station and that you are trying to help be a benefit for our monarchs as they are migrating up and down from, I think, the Mexico area. So this is another fantastic opportunity to kind of look into, get that information online, and it’s fantastic. Great. So one other quick thing I found during our research, and I did not know this existed, but we do have an active Society of Kentucky Lepidopterists. Lepidopterist. Yeah, so people that study butterflies. Lepidopterists. So, I was really interested. It looked like really neat. Unfortunately, we missed their big, outing this summer. It was in June. But they’ve got fantastic information, on their website. I’m sorry I interrupted you, but every state will have something like this. They do. Absolutely, they do. but I, I found that this was very interesting that we actually have a society, a group that meets and studies butterflies here in Kentucky, like bird watchers, but they’re butterfly watchers, but they’re butterfly watchers. Absolutely.

So that was really fun. And they have all kinds of neat, outings and, kind of look into that.

So that’s what I found on butterflies. I think we will stop it there and keep that For now.

More to come, as always. As always. And remember, before you do that though, okay, yeah, do your little Irish blessing that you want to do. Oh, I loved this. Yes, it’s, may the wings of a butterfly kiss the sun and find your shoulder to light on to bring you luck, happiness, and riches today, tomorrow, and beyond. Isn’t that sweet? Yes. Okay, well, that’s it, I guess, for this show. That is it. It’s a lot about butterflies, so go out and enjoy. We would love if you would take just a moment to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever platform that you listen to us on. It helps more garden-interested people find the show. Yes, it does. Absolutely. And then also, obviously, we take questions. You can email those at [email protected]. That’s Gardening with the Gardiners, and don’t forget, gardener is with an I. Thank you for listening to Gardening with the Gardiners. Please subscribe or follow to get new episode updates, and please help us get the word out about our new podcast by dropping a rating and review, as Hope just said. If you have any questions, either gardening, landscape, or horticulturally related, you can email us at gwtg— that’s Gardening with the Gardiners— at boonegardiner.com. And remember, we’re the GARDINERS with an I— that’s G-A-R-D-E-N-E-R-S. Thank you for listening to Gardening with the Gardiners. We will see you next time. Bye.

[End of Gardening with The Gardiners: Episode 21 Butterfly Gardens. Subscribe to our podcast at Podbean or where you get your podcasts!]